Exclusive: Ana Kasparian on Economic Policy, the Working Class and More by Nomi

In this discussion Ana Kasparian details the policies that continue to impact inflation, debt and workers over the long-term.

Click here to listen to the interview.

We’re thrilled to be able to share an exclusive interview with Ana Kasparian with you. Ana is one of the world’s most important independent voices today and a friend. She has a powerful Substack called Unaligned that delivers in-depth analysis on a weekly basis digging into the stories that matter. She explores all sides of each story that effects Americans of all walks of life to get to the truth.

I’ve known her for over a decade. Ana has grown to become the executive producer of one of the most viewed independent news shows on the planet. I can firmly say that her drive toward intellectual freedom and open mindedness is what makes her work worth your time and consideration.

Our discussion unpacks:

• What the economic disconnect in the U.S. and around the world really means.

• Which policy areas could find common ground in the months and years ahead – regardless of the political climate.

• Why inflation and the story of debt continues to play a role in the economy.

The interview touches on current political themes, but the discussion is centered around issues that impact the economy, the financial system and people on Main Street looking to improve themselves and their communities.


Audio Transcript

Interviewer:
Welcome to another episode of Prinsights i am so excited about today's guest Ana Kasparian is incredible she is one of the most important independent voices in this world today and i was just looking through my very old emails back to 2009 And that was when Ana first contacted me in February 2009 in the wake of a massive financial crisis bailout and the start of a significant amount of free money, cheap money, quantitative easing and all sorts of things coming from central banks. We spoke about it back then. We have been in touch for all of the years and she has had a massive career and she has just launched just two months ago an incredible new sub stack called Unaligned. Anna, welcome to Prinsights.

Kasparian:
Thank you so much, Nomi. It's such a pleasure speaking with you. You're one of my favorite people to have conversations with. So I'm super excited about this.

Interviewer:
Me too. And I want to just jump right into it for people on print sites who may not necessarily know all of the incredible work you have done and the voice that you have and where you've come to today because of how you think critically, how you are so bold and courageous with your views, how you basically,again, I think one of the most important and dependent voices in the world today. So can you give a little bit about that background and how you come to Unaligned and what the mission here is for you now.

Kasparian:
I really became politicized in high school in the lead up to the preemptive war in Iraq. And I saw that war as just a terrible idea. I did not agree with it. And I remember being in my high school English class. We were reading The Glass Menagerie and I had like some snippets of articles from The New York Times that I wanted to read about the lead up to the war. And I remember reading what Bill Kristol was saying and I was just so angry at neoconservatism. And so that was really when I became politicized. And I think it's fair to say that the Democratic Party has really changed since then.

I mean, we're talking about 2002, 2003. You know, Obama made so many promises. He, of course, spoke so eloquently about how the country needed change. I really believe that he would have better solutions for the financial crisis. But of course, I was proven wrong with what he did in essentially looking out for Wall Street and refusing to look out for the best interests of ordinary people who are having their homes foreclosed and were really struggling. And so that became the beginning of my, I guess, displeasure, for lack of a better word, with the Democratic Party. But I still saw them as much better than the fast forward to the last election and, you know, while you have the Democrats running a campaign that really centered on the notion of saving democracy, We also had this issue where Joe Biden decided that he wanted to run for a second term. Terrible idea. He refused to drop out of the race. And I believe that there was this big cover up in regard to his cognitive capabilities. And so it was too late by the time he decided to drop out. And Kamala Harris was anointed as the Democratic nominee.

It really weakened their pro-democracy message because the American people, Democratic voters, didn't get an opportunity to cast their ballots for who they felt would be the best individual to beat Donald Trump. And in addition to that, in addition to the Democratic Party really taking on this more pro corporate role in our political landscape, We also have this issue of them kind of leaning in further and further into some of these culture war issues, which have prescriptions that are more and more maximalist and are not at all. Well, I wouldn't say at all, but they're not as, uh, Appealing to the American people and even Democratic voters who, when it comes to some of these social issues, I think are a little more moderate than the Democratic Party would have you believe. In addition to that, you know, there's this censorious nature that the Democratic Party has really taken on this idea that certain people shouldn't be spoken to or platformed.

I like the idea of having my political ideologyand my policy prescriptions challenged because that allows me to be sharper, better, find certain flaws or downsides or unintended consequences to things that I believe would be better for the country. And Democrats have done less and less of that. And so I see them... just recycling the same tired arguments that have already been debunked and disproven. And so that's where I find myself today. I consider myself unaligned because neither political party really represents my values.

Interviewer:
And at the same time, what you're saying is so timely, gone to it from years of perspective. And then I think a lot of people like you discovered or found or felt that what happened in that flip from Biden to Harris wasn't necessarily a democratic switch. And that also was really...not communicating what they could do for the economics of the country. And that proved to be one of the most critical issues in the election, not just in the election, but the people feel on a day to day basis beyond the sort of social classifications. And that was something that they didn't do. And I wonder if looking forward or just how you see that that economic disconnect from a communication standpoint and from a policy prescriptive standpoint, where you see that going and what you see is necessary for the country.

Kasparian:
Based on what we're hearing from Democratic power players, and I'm talking about the strategists, the very people who worked on Kamala Harris' campaign who don't really intend to go anywhere. I think that the future Democratic nominee is very likely going to work with these people who only proven themselves to fail.

But based on what they're saying, they haven't learned the right lessons. I think that there is truth behind the argument that taking a maximalist approach on some of these social issues is not a good idea, but that's only half the story. In fact, I would say it's 25% of the story. 75% of the story is that the Democratic Party is no longer considered You know, the party associated with the working class in America. And that is definitely the Democrats fault, because what we hear from them time and time again, when they do sit in positions of power, when they do have the executive branch, when they do have control of Congress is. Well, we know we promised everything to you, and we know that we have all of the different power. We're in power in all the relevant areas of our government. But still, we're going to find some excuse, right? Whether it's filibuster, which is a legislative filibuster requiring 60 votes to pass pretty much anything. You know, when you look at Republicans and particularly Donald Trump, while I don't agree with their policies, one thing I will say is that Trump is a bull in the China shop. He'll use the bully pulpit and he will force his way to what he wants. OK, there is obviously a massive downside to that. But the positive is he seems to listen to his base. The guy is addicted to admiration and validation. And so if his base wants something, he seems to be willing to fight to get it.

I think a good example is the way he corresponded with Jerome Powell in his first term when Powell was considering increasing interest rates. And Trump knew that that would actually hurt him with his approval rating. And so he publicly bullied Jerome Powell to prevent an increase in interest rates. I mean, it was incredible.

I can't imagine any Democrat in Congress right now or any Democratic governor who would fight as hard as Trump does in order to accomplish either legislative wins, and Trump certainly did that when it came to tax cuts for corporations and things like that, or when it comes to monetary policy with the financial reserve.

And so I'm sorry, Federal Reserve, I mean. So I don't see fighters on the Democratic side. And I don't mean I'm not looking for people who are just causing problems and being aggressive with no real end in sight. I'm talking about people who are strategic and have been proven fighters for the American people.

They make a lot of promises when they're running. But once they're elected, it's a completely different story.

Interviewer:
Do you think it's sort of more of lacking the courage or the vision or the strategy or all of those things in terms of coming up with better solutions that are more in touch with the concerns of the American people on a both partisan basis? I mean, if you sit down at the kitchen table, whether you are Republican or Democrat in your voting, you still care about your ability to pay the bills and you still worry about struggling to move you and your family forward.

Kasparian:
That's absolutely true. And in fact, there's this, you know, trend of populism rising on both the right and the left. In fact, I think that while right wing populism can be pretty terrifying because it's oftentimes associated with like protectionism, which I think to some extent is. is not necessarily a bad thing. I think some of Trump's trade policies are fascinating, and I'm curious to hear what you think about it. But I think the heart of the issue with the Democratic Party right now isn't that they're lacking principle or any values. We just don't know what those values really are, because what's incentivizing their behavior isn't what's in the best interest of Americans. It's honestly, they're campaign donors, right? Like we have legalized bribes in our political system, and I think we've done that to the detriment of the American people. But in addition to that, Nomi, there's a problem when you have members of Congress trading individual stocks because they are literally invested in the profit maximization of corporate America. And that does not at all go along with what's best for the American people. In fact, it conflicts with what's best for the American people. And I believe that the reason why Democrats have decided to lean into the culture wars more and more is because i mean what else are they going to run on are they really going to run on robust economic policies real reforms and real changes that could jeopardize you know not only the profits of corporations but the return on investment by these members of congress so that's what i see as the big issue here i don't think it's uh i don't think it's an ideological issue i think it's really a corruption issue.

Interviewer:
To use a different component of unaligned, which you're talking about from a political standpoint, there's also the fact that their alignment with corporations, with policies that can impact their own personal portfolios, yes, absolutely does. I totally agree with you, stand in the way of decisions that can be made. I think American people, especially with so many forms of independent media out there are ways that people can actually access information outside of what they may be hearing on the mainstream areas. They're noticing they know that there's something corrupt. They know there's something wrong. And again, this is across all parties and you.

have talked a lot about and also in the launch of Your New Substack Unaligned that, you know, there are common areas. There are areas that impact all people and there should be solutions to help the betterment of Americans. And that doesn't That doesn't mean picking a party or picking a way of thinking. It means actually promoting policies that can work. And, you know, you talked about some of them from the standpoint of better alignment or if we ever get rid of the ability of, you know, Congress people to trade stocks in Congress while they're also making policy. But what are some of the other things that you would subscribe or prescribe, I should say?

Kasparian:
Yeah. So I just think that the,again, biggest issue is the corruption that's now really baked into our system. But I also see a little glimmer of hope and I don't want to be naive about it. So it's cautious optimism. And it goes back to what I was saying earlier about this increase in populism on both the left and the right. And I think that's where you see a lot of common ground and agreement across the are free to think about some of the more social issues, right? Whether or not transgender people should be allowed in women's locker rooms or whatever. And I'm not trying to minimize that debate, but most Americans are really concerned about bread and butter issues because there are unsustainable issues trends happening in our economy if you pay close attention. So just to give you an example, there's much to do about consumer spending. And that's one of the metrics that the Biden administration kept pointing to in order to show that there's real economic growth and real economic recovery. But I don't think that's true because at the same time, you see that there's this increase in debt, consumer debt, at a time when interest rates are higher, meaning it's much more costly to pay back that debt or take on those loans.

And so credit card debt is at an all-time high. Student loan debt has been an issue. There are a ton of auto loans that are subprime loans. And so all of this is happening kind of behind the scenes. This is the backdrop. And I can understand the absolute fury and frustration that Americans are feeling right now as...

You have the Democratic Party, again, the party that historically was associated with the working class, telling Americans everything is great. OK, the recovery from covid is fantastic. I mean, look at all these other developed countries with their high inflation. But I think the majority of Americans don't look at the metrics and say, inflation has slowed down.

Things are going great. No, prices are still going up. So just because inflation has slowed down doesn't mean that ordinary, hardworking Americans are feeling any real benefits from that. Right. They're still having a difficult time affording the essentials. Their wages have not kept up with inflation. There was like a brief period of time during the Biden administration when that had changed because of the tight labor market. But The whole reason why the Federal Reserve decided to raise interest rates was to increase unemployment. Jerome Powell was very honest and candid about that. And so you have these two different narratives taking place.


Things are going great. No, prices are still going up. So just because inflation has slowed down doesn't mean that ordinary, hardworking Americans are feeling any real benefits from that. Right. They're still having a difficult time affording the essentials. Their wages have not kept up with inflation.

There was like a brief period of time during the Biden administration when that had changed because of the tight labor market. But The whole reason why the Federal Reserve decided to raise interest rates was to increase unemployment. Jerome Powell was very honest and candid about that. And so you have these two different narratives taking place.

And much like with what happened with Obama, when Obama was touting his fantastic economy, there was hell to pay. And the voters retaliated because the economy was not great for the majority of Americans.

Interviewer:
No, absolutely. you know, as you mentioned, with the debt that we have right now, it's actually even worse because aside from wages not keeping up with inflation or the fact that prices are continuing to rise, even if a little bit more slowly this year than last year or not even by that much,everyone is struggling under more expensive debt, consumer, household, autos and so forth. And it seems like actually at the moment, neither party and certainly the Democrats, I agree with you, didn't get that going into this election or in any form of residue from the prior one. But also from the Trump perspective, it doesn't seem like there's beyond. raising tariffs or beyond reducing taxes for corporations. There doesn't seem to be economic policies that are being put forward to reduce the pain that was felt at the polls by Americans, again, across the political spectrum about exactly this, about how expensive it is to live here, to live, to meet your household budget.

Kasparian:
Absolutely. And at the center of all of that, when we talk about inflation, typically a lot of focus is paid to groceries. But one of the biggest issues is the price of housing. And one of the only avenues in which working class Americans were able to build wealth was through buying a home. And that opportunity is no longer attainable for the vast majority of American workers. And I don't really see any genuine, robust discussion about how to increase housing supply, about what to do to incentivize municipalities to loosen some of their zoning laws, which I believe are intentionally... written to prevent construction of new homes, because people want to, as I understand it, people want to protect the asset they have. And so if you're already a homeowner, I don't own a single residential home, you know, I live in a condo, but I've seen the equity increase on my condo. I now understand that this is really one of the best ways in which working class people can increase their wealth. And I want that for everyone.

Right. And so I'm OK with, you know, a drop in home prices because of an increase in supply. If that means that more Americans have an opportunity to build wealth, to build equity, because quite frankly, I am not happy seeing what's happening to my fellow Americans, even as I am living relatively comfortably. OK, I don't understand people who want to, on one hand, protect their asset. Again, I understand why they would want to do that. But as they're doing it, there are some real consequences that diminish their quality of life. And I'm talking about increased homelessness, increased crime, like all of these things, yes, are associated with some of the economic rot that has been brought forth by these neoliberal policies that really do value the corporate elite over the American people. When you see that Americans across the political spectrum have absolutely no empathy for the assassination of a healthcare executive and we can moralize about that, but we could also try to understand why Americans feel that way to begin with. Right. And so our broken health care system, housing prices, all of this stuff plays a role in the dysfunction that we're seeing on the streets right now.

Interviewer:
Yeah. And you actually wrote a recent piece about specifically vigilantism versus really the specific rot as you, you know, to use your word at the in the health care system. Not to condone an assassination, but to also recognize that the healthcare system has by far and away gone in the wrong direction vis-a-vis people's ability to get insurance, to pay for insurance. And to have, you know, health and financial security sort of wrapped up in one as they look at their lives. Can you just talk a little bit about some of the points that you made in that piece? And we can also link up. I thought that was a very important piece you wrote.

I want to thank everyone at Prinsights for tuning in on this episode. Thank you so much.

Kasparian:
Thank you.

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