E Stop The Corona Insanity - The Data

>> Watch Part 1: I'm A Coronavirus Heretic. Here's Why...

Video length: 00:30:05

Yesterday I talked about the impact of hidden deaths. Our narrow focus on the virus is driving decisions that will be devastating - far worse than the virus itself. 

In reaction, people asked for data. What about 'spreading out cases'? what about hospitalization rates? how much would mass isolation impact mortality? Can we do an apples-to-apples comparison?

My first impression was, no. We can only broadly estimate these things. And that remains true in the context of global collapse. After all, we’ve never seen a massive global economic collapse in the era of modern medicine. We really don't know what that would do.

But that doesn’t mean we can’t model some of the effects. And that modeling strongly implies that mass isolation is a very bad idea. 

This simple chart sums it up.

(Click on image to enlarge)

Photo Credits: Danting Zhu, Bruno Martins, Natanael Melchor, La So, Jeffrey Hamilton, Eric Rothermel, Nasa, EV, Kelly Sikkema, Olga Kononenko (all from UnSplash)

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Marc B 2 months ago Member's comment

Good out of the box analysis.

Michele Grant 3 months ago Member's comment

DRM, you have some controversial, yet thought provoking comments. And while I certainly believe people should stay home until the pandemic is under control, I understand the danger this poses to the economy, individual's mental health, and the freedoms.

I'm curious to know your opinion on an idea floating around the web regarding those who refuse to abide by stay at home orders, or those who openly oppose it. What if those people were free to do as they please, as long as they signed a legally binding oath saying that they would not seek medical assistance should they become infected. Wouldn't that solve the problem for those who want to flatten the curve and are worried about overwhelming hospitals? While giving everyone the right to decide for themselves what to do?

DRM 3 months ago Member's comment

There are more and more medical professionals speaking out every day about the hazards of the lockdowns imposed on American citizens across the country, not to mention the violations of our constitutional rights, for example the 14th Amendment: No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Even in Europe, where the types of freedoms we supposedly have don't exist, there are more and more medical professionals saying the same thing. Just do a search of the news, but not CNN, MSNBC or any other liberal mainstream media outlet. I've read that calls to the national suicide hotline have increased 1,000 percent. Not to mention the tens of thousands not getting treatment who are suffering from heart disease, cancer or some other grave and serious illness, who have not had the opportunity, due to doctor's offices and clinics being closed or out of fear to leave their homes. About your recommendation that people not seek medical assistance if they freely choose to go out into the public, what about smokers? Should they not be allowed to seek treatment if they contract cancer? Should those in high risk jobs not be allowed medical attention if they become injured or ill, because they freely choose those occupations? In summary, Americans should be allowed to live their lives in the manner that the founding fathers intended, without restrictions, as long as they act lawfully. Finally, the mayors and governors who have shut down businesses and forced Americans into house arrest must pay the price for their disastrous and insane edicts. In past times they would have been hung!

Michele Grant 3 months ago Member's comment

You misunderstood my question. I asked about their agreeing to not seek medical attention if they become infected with COVID-19. That will ensure hospitals won't be overwhelmed and that those who need the hospital for other medical conditions will be able to get the treatment they need. As would the people who followed the rules and did the most they could to ensure the virus doesn't spread.

I am so frustrated by the idiots going around in tight groups, without any PPE and protesting that COVID-19 is a hoax and threatening healthcare workers. I have no sympathy for them when they end up getting sick and needing care by the very people they were harassing. But it disturbs me that they may take away precious hospital space and supplies from those who deserve it more.

DRM 3 months ago Member's comment

Here are the facts: Neither C-19 illnesses or deaths came close to the initial estimates, the modified estimates or the modifications to those estimates. Hospitals were never overwhelmed. In fact, several temporary hospitals which were set up to care for the grossly exaggerated number of patients, were never used and have already been dismantled. Hundreds of thousands of ventilators were left unused. More people die every year from the flu than will die this year from C-19 and there is a vaccine for the flu. What does that tell you? The worst is supposedly over and the world is at about 350K deaths attributed to C-19. The annual deaths worldwide from the flu is 650,000. By the way, 56 million people die every year around the world. Less than 1% of this year's deaths will be from C-19. You can thank the press (for needlessly frightening the people) and the ignorant politicians for causing the deaths and poverty of millions of Americans do to their foolish, actually insane decision to close the economy and for the house arrest of practically the entire population. If you are under 70 years old you can be pretty sure that you will not die from C-19 and you have up to a 50% chance of being asymptomatic, if you do catch the virus. Most C-19 deaths have been people over 70 who were either obese, had hypertension or diabetes. The C-19 virus is not a hoax, but the hype made it seem like a hoax. People do foolish things all the time, but you can't refuse them medical attention. Should motorcyclists or for that matter bicyclists who don't wear helmets be denied medical attention when they fall and bust their heads open? You should be worried about the freedoms that were stolen from you by your mayor or governor. You should be angry that the federal government wasted Trillions of dollars, they don't have, to "stimulate" the economy. Generations will pay the price for something that never needed to happen. Finally, less than 5/1,000ths of 1 percent of the world population will die from C-19. If you can fathom that number, you can easily understand why some people feel this was a hoax.

Michele Grant 3 months ago Member's comment

Also, you need to stop comparing COVID-19 to things like people getting cancer from smoking, or motorcyclists getting a head injury for not wearing a helmet. These are not analogous at all.

In your examples, the person endangers no one but themselves. Cancer and head injuries are not contagious. COVID-19 is HIGHLY contagious. Your comparisons are pointless.

DRM 3 months ago Member's comment

Have you seen the news lately? C-19 is real, but the danger was hyped greater than anything in history, including "Global Warming". Seriously, search through the internet and you will find lots of scientists, physicians, statisticians and other "experts" who now, finally refute the danger of C-19 and the numbers of infected and deaths from C-19 as well. Governments, the press and "experts" all lied to the public about C-19. The illegally forced lockdowns killed or will kill more people than C-19, while putting 40 million additional people out of work in the USA alone. Even Prof Neil Ferguson, who authored the report, based on his terribly erroneous model, that triggered the world's politicians to lockdown, has said that the lockdowns did not work and were not necessary. Read this:

www.telegraph.co.uk/.../prof-lockdown-neil-ferguson-admits-sweden-used-science-uk-has/

BTW, there will be fewer C-19 deaths worldwide this year than from the flu, which averages 650,000 deaths annually, eventhough there’s a vaccine for the flu. And unlike C-19, the flu kills regardless of the age or health of the individual.

Michele Grant 3 months ago Member's comment

My problem with this argument is that people say "see, we did not need to shut the country down, hospitals were not overwhelmed." Without realizing how idiotic that statement is. That the very reason hospitals were not overwhelmed were BECAUSE we shut the country down. Otherwise infections would have been higher.

Susan Miller 3 months ago Member's comment

This is an excellent point. It's also worth noting that "overwhelmed" is a subjective term. I've never heard a single hospital worker say anything like "yeah, it's been fine, we have plenty of PPE and we've been taking it easy over here." On the contrary, they are exhausted, working crazy hours, not able to see be with their own families out of fear of infecting them, etc., and reusing PPE far beyond what was ever intended, or even using items like garbage bags or whatever they can.

Many have become sick, died or even committed suicide. It's a horrific situation. I can't even imagine how much worse it would have been had the country remained completely open.

Michele Grant 3 months ago Member's comment

Agreed. And this was also after tens of thousands of medical professionals answered the call to help, and came from less infected areas or came out of retirement.

Joseph Cox 3 months ago Author's comment

World population is 7.6 billion. 1% is 76 million. 5/1000s of that is 380,000. WorldOMeter reports 355,000 deaths. I think it's pretty clear there will be at least another 30,000.

I do think it is highly dangerous, but I also think the extent of our shutdown is also highly dangerous. I support social distancing and masks, but not the shutdown of businesses around the world.

DRM 3 months ago Member's comment

So, do you agree that the number is miniscule, insignificant when compared to the 56 million that die every year and to the millions more who will die as a result of the insane measures taken by politicians around the world, out of pure fear, without regard for common sense, let alone science? And like frightened children, none of them thought through the ramifications. Do you agree that the flu, which kills 650K every year is more deadly, both because of the sheer numbers and also because the flu kills people of all ages, in spite of the fact that we have a new vaccine every year? Yes, death is a sad and terrible thing. We are not immortal. Why is it so hard, for so many people to see the hype behind C-19? Probably for the same reason that so many people honestly believe that man is responsible for global warming or climate change or whatever name they will come up with next, and that man can fix it.

Joseph Cox 3 months ago Author's comment

DRM, I do not agree that the flu is more deadly. My presentation above was made quite a while ago, but it still predicted a *doubling* of mortality for different age groups if we did nothing. That is a lot of dead. It is *despite* this that it argued for more limited intervention. Arguing WURS (WUhan Respiratory Syndrome) is not dangerous is a losing hand. I only argued that doing what we were doing would cost more net life-years than a full lockdown. I still believe that is the case.

I still believe we should focus on protecting the elderly, defending nursing homes etc... That will save the most lives all around.

Jack S. Chen 3 months ago Member's comment

Why do you call is WURS? No one else calls it that and China won't like it. Some say it did not even really originate in Whuan China.

Joseph Cox 3 months ago Author's comment

Jack S. Chen Because these things are typically named after locations where they first cropped up. Bill Mahr did a great little skit on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEfDwc2G2_8

His examples include: Zika, Ebola, Hanta, West Nile, MERS etc... etc...

The fact that Communist Chinese errors and coverups (arresting doctors...) almost certainly led to its failed containment (either in Wuhan or at the lab, depending on your theory) should not lead to a change in this naming approach. Being responsible and very aggressive should not lead to everybody saying "oh no, China won't like it!"

However, I personally do not think the Chinese Syndrome is a good name. There are a few reasons:

1) Chinese is an ethnicity, not just a location

2) Too many new viruses come from China for it to set any particular one apart

So, I go with Wuhan. It might not be a Respiratory Syndrome but because nobody else is using this naming and because WURS is a fun acronym, I'll stick with it.

DRM 3 months ago Member's comment

OMG! The experts were wrong from the very beginning? How can this be? www.foxnews.com/.../imperial-college-britain-coronavirus-lockdown-buggy-mess-unreliable

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

I highly recommend this video explaining the very negative consequences of the lockdowns throughout the world entitled: Nobel prize winning scientist Prof Michael Levitt: lockdown is a “huge mistake”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl-sZdfLcEk

Harry Goldstein 4 months ago Member's comment

DRM, with so much conflicting data out there, its good to remember some simple truths:

edition.cnn.com/.../index.html

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment
DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

If the video linked in this post which I'm typing right now is not a conspiracy theory, nothing I've tried to explain in the posts below matters. Plandemic Documentary The Hidden Agenda Behind Covid! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd9BTwtWJfo

Barry Hochhauser 4 months ago Member's comment

I believe the people that believe the Plandemic Documentary, or that the COVID-19 virus were genetically engineered on purpose aren't independent thinkers who can use common sense, or know how to listen to actual experts.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Who are the "experts"? Maybe Prof Neil Ferguson who quit as a British government adviser on coronavirus after admitting his "error of judgement", when he left his quarantine to have sex with his married mistress? Or maybe one of his many other errors of judgment, like his original "expert" estimates which warned that the spread of the disease could cause as many as 510,000 deaths in Britain, and projected up to 2.2 million deaths in the United States. These estimates coaxed our politicians into destroying the best economy in our country's history, illegally forced the closure of businesses and eliminated our freedoms, "guaranteed" by the Constitution. Here are a few other predictions from this "expert". [Imperial College epidemiologist Neil] Ferguson was behind the disputed research that sparked the mass culling of eleven million sheep and cattle during the 2001 outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease. He also predicted that up to 150,000 people could die. There were fewer than 200 deaths.... In 2002, Ferguson predicted that up to 50,000 people would likely die from exposure to BSE (mad cow disease) in beef. In the U.K., there were only 177 deaths from BSE. In 2005, Ferguson predicted that up to 150 million people could be killed from bird flu. In the end, only 282 people died worldwide from the disease between 2003 and 2009. In 2009, a government estimate, based on Ferguson’s advice, said a “reasonable worst-case scenario” was that the swine flu would lead to 65,000 British deaths. In the end, swine flu killed 457 people in the U.K. Last March, Ferguson admitted that his Imperial College model of the COVID-19 disease was based on undocumented, 13-year-old computer code that was intended to be used for a feared influenza pandemic, rather than a coronavirus. Ferguson declined to release his original code so other scientists could check his results. He only released a heavily revised set of code last week, after a six-week delay. The only "experts" who have been right, have been those who have or warned against or are finally warning against the insane overreactions of politicians around the world. The fact is, over 650,000 people died worldwide from the flu in 2019 and so far, less than half that have died from C-19, assuming you can trust the government published numbers, which you can't. But, let's assume that the C-19 deaths were double that number. Will fewer people die from the consequences of the lockdowns? More and more evidence is showing that the consequences of the lockdowns are many times worse than C-19. Thank you "experts" and thank you, you brilliant politicians for turning C-19 into the greatest disaster in the history of mankind. And finally, thank you citizens for trusting the "experts" and the politicians with your safety, health and wellbeing. But, wait and see! It will get worse!

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

I can't force myself to read or watch CNN. It's the most biased, fake news outlet that's ever existed. I've spent a lot of time in Russia and studying the former Soviet Union and even they are amatures compared to the propaganda that CNN spews. The FCC should revoke their license. Here's a simple truth. Watch the video and read the article. Mayors and Governors are more dangerous than the virus! www.foxnews.com/.../judge-andrew-napolitano-coronavirus-crisis-constitution

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

I wrote a more generalized article about the the costs of shutdowns on a structural economic level... Y'all will probably enjoy it :)

talkmarkets.com/.../some-of-my-best-friends-are-economists

Adam Reynolds 4 months ago Member's comment

DRM, you said the flu kills more people than #COVID-19 but according to Reuters and AccuWeather, that's not true. COVID-19 has killed more people than any flu season since 1967. Here are the stats:

mixi.media/.../news

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

The "flu" season of 1967, according to my research, killed 100,000 Americans. The population of the USA in 1967 was 199 million. So, the flu killed 5/100ths of 1 percent of the population in 1967. Still not a significant number, by a long shot. Based on today's population of the USA, 331 million, the C-19 virus will have to kill more than 166,000 people in America, this year, to exceed the number of flu deaths of 1967. The point is, C-19 is nowhere as deadly as originally predicted (see link below for an excellent article that mentions the chief author "chief idiot" Neil Ferguson of the Imperial College of London). This article also explains how insanely foolish government leaders at all levels have been. PS: Ignore the video at the top of the news article. www.foxnews.com/.../coronavirus-modeling-hysterical-culture-pandemic-reaction-newt-gingrich

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Unfortunately, different sources have different numbers: An excerpt from THE WASHINGTON POST dated September 27, 2018.

Flu broke records for deaths, illnesses in 2017-2018, new CDC numbers show.

Flu killed and hospitalized more people in the United States last winter than any seasonal influenza in decades. It’s the most detailed picture of the devastating reach of the respiratory virus, which sickened millions of people as overwhelmed hospitals pitched tents to treat patients.

Influenza killed about 80,000 people in the 2017-2018 season, according to figures released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The previous high for a regular flu season, based on analyses dating back more than three decades, was 56,000 deaths.

This year is the 100th anniversary of the worst pandemic in human history, the Spanish flu which killed 50 million to 100 million people during the winter of 1918-1919.

It’s virtually impossible to predict the coming flu season. The season in the Southern Hemisphere has been relatively mild, a possible indicator for what to expect in the United States.

The CDC uses mathematical modeling to estimate total flu-related deaths. Because flu seasons vary in length and severity, the estimates have ranged from a low of 12,000 deaths (during 2011-2012) to a previous high of 56,000 (during 2012-2013).

During the 2017-18 flu season, more than 900,000 people were hospitalized, double the number of many regular seasons.

Adam Reynolds 4 months ago Member's comment

Even by these higher numbers you state, COVID-19 in only a few months has practically surpassed the flu deaths for all of last year. And these are only the people who were confirmed to have COVID-19. Since tests are still almost impossible to be had by normal people (though alas, seem to be easy for the rich and famous), the deaths have probably already surpassed these numbers. Funeral homes say they are overflowing with bodies like never before. I don't understand how you can claim the flu is worse. It's not.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

From the mouth of Dr. Deborah Brix, Coronavirus Response Coordinator for the White House Coronavirus Task Force. Proof that the US Government is counting all deaths as C-19 deaths, regardless of the actual cause of death, if the deceased had contracted C-19. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGHp1GdOD4k and a longer version here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blZpgra3XbU

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Just saw a report that there is evidence that C-19 was in the USA as early as last November, probably even earlier.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

It's true that we don't know and probably will never know how many people will die from C-19. There are reports that doctors are being, at a minimum, pressured to classify the cause of death as C-19, if the deceased had C-19, regardless of it actually being the cause of death. As we well know, not everyone who contracts C-19 dies. In fact, many who do contract C-19 are asymptomatic. I've read reports that up to 50% are asymptomatic, but who really knows? This being the case, how many people who contracted C-19 and later died, actually died from other causes? Isn't it even possible that people who were in the hospital for other reasons, contracted C-19 while in the hospital, yet died from the illness which brought them to the hospital in the first place? There's another point that I realized just yesterday, that has been discussed before, but something important was left out of the conversation. There is a vaccine for the flu and that is one argument for why the flu is less threatening, but we need to consider this, even with a flu vaccine, 80,000 people died in the US during 2017-18 flu season. That's right, even with a vaccine, tens of thousands died. And, how many people had the flu, yet died from other causes and were not incorrectly classified as dying from the flu, as is the case of C-19? Numbers don't lie, but organizations who have reason for protecting their interests, do lie. Maybe city mayors and state governors and the US government want to protect themselves from the coming criticisms they will face from the citizens of this country, for the insane decisions they made to close the economy and lock people in their homes and give away trillions of dollars we don't have, for what in the end will be less than 5/100ths of 1 percent of the population dying from "C-19". Death is inevitable! Intentionally destroying what was probably the greatest economy in the history of the US and the world, and forced lockdowns of the majority of the US population, is both unconstitutional and insane. The only thing that may be more insane, was electing these idiots in the first place.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Seriously? You want to force healthy elderly people into isolation? Ever heard of civil rights? Ever read the constitution? Why do you think people can't decide for themselves how best to care for themselves? You know better? Are you a socialist, communist or fascist?

Beating Buffett 4 months ago Member's comment

Keeping them in isolation is for their own safety. My mother has dementia so no, she can't decide for herself. Many of those in her home are often confused or forgetful and don't even remember that a pandemic is going on.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

You keeping your mother in isolation is a personal/family choice. That's totally different from the government stripping us of our civil rights, our ability to earn an income, forcing businesses to close. This is all unconstitutional!

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

I would prefer to isolate them rather than force everybody into isolation? I suppose if they want to come out while the virus ravages the young they could but that wouldnt be ideal.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

I'd prefer that people who think that they know what's ideal for others, to keep their ideas to themselves. It's unfortunate that none of the mayors or governors, who have shut down businesses and forced the citizens of those cities and states, have been taken to court, yet. It will become clear, when someone finally gets a judge to hear their case, that these actions are unconstitutional. Abuse of power was the root cause of the revolutionary war. You should read the article at the link below. It explains the unconstitutionality of these actions.

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

I guess, DRM, that you are against mandatory vaccines. Obviously those are people who know what's ideal for others. You're probably against taxes to pay for a military, as you're forcing people to take part in building up a defensive capability that is only 'supposed' to help them. And you're probably against making people pay for a legal system. After all, that's just making people pay for a societal good - and then obligating them to obey it when it does what they don't like.

The thing is, there's always a balance. Isolation isn't about helping you, it is about others. Same with support for a military, courts and vaccines. You aren't allowed to say I won't pay for that or participate in that because it creates a huge free rider program. Of course these efforts always have to be moderated. The societal benefits have to be leavened with individual freedoms - or you could say individual freedoms have to be leavened with societal needs.

You should be very careful to limit when you limit freedoms. But it doesn't mean you should never do it.

I recently wrote a futuristic story (think Blade Runner light) dealing with these issues - and asking what cost we should pay for life itself. It doesn't really have answers, but you might enjoy it.

It isn't short, but it's up at:

medium.com/.../the-cost-of-life-fiction-268cb891e075

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Yes, I am against mandatory vaccines. I understand that children whose parents wish them to attend public school must be vaccinated. Thank God that we can still homeschool our children in America, unlike just about every other country in the world. One of the few things we should, as Americans, pay taxes for, is a military, to "defend" our nation. Unfortunately, I can't remember us ever having a president who didn't keep us out of, or pull us out of, the insane wars we perpetually fight. We are constantly at war in various places around the world and what has it gotten us? How many trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives have we wasted in the Middle East? Is the Middle East any less screwed up today than it was 30 years ago, before our president entrenched us in this never-ending nightmare with each president since Bush has keeping wasting money and lives? I served my country as a US Army Infantry Officer. But that doesn't mean that I agree with the insane wars we have fought since WWII. I'm all for going in and destroying those who attack us or threaten us. But, there's nothing positive to be gained by staying engaged in an unwinnable war, indefinitely. There has and never will be peace in the Middle East. Never!!! So, don't tell me about the "defensive" capability of our military. We fight more "offensive" wars around the world than any country in history. About paying taxes for our legal system. Our legal system is dysfunctional! Mostly because of the judges who love to legislate from the bench, rather than judge a case presented before them based on the laws written by legislatures. There are few things that probably shouldn't be privatized, but our legal system, other than the Supreme Court, isn't one of them. The other being our police forces; local, state and federal. I've traveled around the world many times. I've flown over 3 million miles as an adult. I was a military brat and lived in Japan and Italy, in addition to both the east and west coasts of the USA, on Naval bases. I've also lived in Germany several times, for about 10 years off on on, Russia for about 5 years, Ukraine (a totally corrupt country, from the lowest bureaucrat to the top of the federal government and another place we throw hundreds of billions of dollars at), and now I'm living in Spain during this global crisis, caused by insane government officials, not the Coronavirus itself. The freedoms stripped form not just Americans, but from citizens of almost every other country in the world, combined with what is turning into the worst economic collapse in history, is 100% the responsibility of government officials who've all made the same totally insane decision to quarantine entire cities, states and countries (as has been done here in Spain and most of the EU). If you look at the numbers you can easily see how foolish they've been. Someday, hopefully soon, the citizens will hold their politicians accountable for this unmitigated disaster. You can see a snapshot of the numbers at the following link. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss our differences. https://www.thecoronainsanity.com/

The Good Doctor 4 months ago Member's comment

The problem with those against vaccines, is that they base their arguments on information which has long been debunked. Vaccines are safe and they protect you from diseases which can be live changing or even deadly.

I understand that rights argument - we can not make it mandatory that people can't smoke - that is taking away people's rights. And if they want to damage themselves, that is their prerogative.

But when someone refuses a vaccine, they can fall sick to some of the worst diseases known to man. And they will be CONTAGIOUS. At that point they are endangering other people as well. And that risks overwhelming hospitals. And when our healthcare system is stretched too thin, it means people will die whom could have otherwise been saved. Many won't even due from that disease, but from unrelated problems such as heart attacks, because we'll lack the medical resources to save them.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

I personally choose to get the flu shot each year, but I don't believe we should force people to vaccinate if they are not attending public school. People have been known to die from vaccinations. Now, you may say that is a risk worth taking, but whose choice is it?

Rebecca Duncan 4 months ago Member's comment

Vaccinations causing death is a straight out lie that is further spread by anti-vaxers. I'd like you to try to send factual proof of a death being directly attributed to a vaccine. Not so easy is it? That's because there has only been ONE such death:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/

"there was one death due to a vaccine strain viral infection: a 3-month-old infant died from myocarditis after oral polio vaccine (which is no longer licensed for use in the United States) and DTP vaccine."

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

First of all, I'm not an "anit-vaxer". I'm an American who believes that the founding fathers got it right when they wrote the Bill of Rights and the US Constitution, protecting the individual freedoms of all Americans. So, answer this, if there were or are no injuries or deaths caused by vaccines, why do you think that The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) of 1986 (42 U.S.C. §§ 300aa-1 to 300aa-34) was signed into law by President Ronald Reagan on November 14, 1986? NCVIA's purpose was to eliminate the financial liability to vaccine manufacturers, due to "vaccine injury" claims, in order to ensure a stable market supply of vaccines, and to "provide cost-effective arbitration" for vaccine injury claims. Under the NCVIA, the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP) was created to provide a federal no-fault system for compensating vaccine-related injuries or death by establishing a claim procedure involving the United States Court of Federal Claims and special masters. Why write and sign into law the protection of vaccine manufacturers if there is no risk of injury or death from their vaccines? Also, once again, the government was flawed in their thinking, as they almost always are. One of the unintended results was for the vaccine manufacturers, who were no longer at risk, to lose focus on the safety of their vaccines, due to the fact that there was no incentive for vaccine manufacturers to test vaccines as rigorously as other medical drugs. There is now an effort to repeal this insane and costly law. see here: www.wvlegislature.gov/.../bills_text.cfm

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

I was speaking of principles. I agree that US wars have had very limited benefit and massive costs - that doesn't mean *a* country doesn't need military capability. I agree courts have issues - that doesn't mean *a* country doesn't need them. And I agree that we've almost certainly made epic mistakes with corona. It is appearing more and more likely that the disease isn't as deadly as perceived - but that it is totally new and thus affecting far more people than a normal flu.

On vaccines I'll have to disagree. Although I was homeschooled, I still disagree. I'm very very happy with vaccinated smallpox into oblivion and our lives as individuals are enhanced when we collectively push deadly diseases out of our lives. That said, I recognize you disagree and that this is a fruitless line of conversation.

On the wars front, I wrote a book about the civil war in Syria and what I believe would be a far more effective way of helping than either throwing open borders or bombing the heck out of things.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0976465965/

Wall Street Wiz 4 months ago Member's comment

You didn't include a link, DRM.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment
Texan Hunter 4 months ago Member's comment

Interesting. There's so much conflicting info out there, it's hard to know what to believe. I do think people should be able to make their own decisions, to a degree. People have an obligation to be careful, wear masks, etc, so as not to spread the virus.

Simply put, some people are dicks. There have been cases where people knew they were infected, and still went around doing what ever the hell they felt like, infecting countless others. Those people belong in jail.

Backyard Hiker 4 months ago Member's comment

"The government can't stop you from protesting as long as you are not contagious." But no one knows if they are contagious. If you haven't been tested, you may not have any symptoms, yet be infected everyone around you. And even if you were tested, you could have become infected after (plus 15%-30% of tests in the US return a false negative).

Wall Street Wiz 4 months ago Member's comment

Thanks for the link. Personally I think these protesters are nuts. I understand that some want to take the risk of getting sick because they need the paycheck. But no reason why they still can't try to be responsible and be social distance. Too many of these protesters don't wear masks and are literally pressed against each other. What's the point of getting the right too work, if you get too sick to go to work?!

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

First of all, our constitutional rights are protected in both good times and bad times. Neither city mayors, nor state governors, nor the President of the United States, have the right to force businesses to close or to force citizens to stay at home. Personal rights can only be restricted through legislation and that means an amendment to the constitution, which will never happen. We're finally seeing some politicians, lawyers, judges, business executives and other individuals with a public voice speak up about the violation of citizens rights. Eventually, this will get to the SCOTUS where they will declare the actions of these lunatic politicians as unconstitutional. Look at the numbers! I highly recommend visiting a new website dedicated to showing the insanity of how most politicians and most Americans are looking at the Coronavirus. www.thecoronainsanity.com

The Good Doctor 4 months ago Member's comment

I checked out your website DRM, but your logic is flawed. First of all, you are comparing a few months of COVID-19, to a full year of deaths from other causes such as cancer, heart attacks, and car accidents. If left unchecked, COVID-19 diseases could easily outpace many of these. Second, NONE of these other causes are contagious. If you have cancer, or get into a car crash, there's no risk of my having the same as a result.

I understand people's desire to compare COVID-19 to what we know. But COVID-19 is unlike anything we've ever experienced in our life times. I understand the desire to be free to go where you wish, and to work, and make a living. But none of that matters if you are dead.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Give me liberty or give me death! Ever hear that before? A lot of men gave their lives for the freedom we used to have. They chose to die for their country, freely. I served my country and was ready to lay down my life if necessary for the freedom of my countrymen. As they say, freedom isn't free. We used to be a nation who valued freedom above all else. Seems today most Americans value their sofa time, iPhone, virtual friends and free handouts above all else.

Adam Sundler 4 months ago Member's comment

I want freedom to not get infected by morons. This says it best: "I will not die of stupid."

www.tampabay.com/.../i-will-not-die-of-stupid-column

DRM 3 months ago Member's comment

You may not die of stupid, but don't live stupid. Patients in hospitals don't wear masks, but the doctors, nurses and hospital staff do, Why? You are free to wear a mask in public, which will reduce your risk of becoming infected. You also have the freedom to stay home if you feel the risk to leave home is too high. More and more medical professionals are "finally" speaking out against the forced lockdowns. There is no evidence that the lockdowns have had a positive effect on infections or deaths. As a matter of fact, there is lots of evidence coming to light that shows the opposite. There is also a lot of data showing a significant increase in deaths due to the lockdowns, just look for it and you will find it. The main reason you and people who think like you, are afraid to venture back into the fresh air and the freedom you enjoyed before idiot mayors and governors put you under house arrest, is because you too easily believe the press and the hype they have, day after day, pushed on their readers. Look at the facts, look at the number of deaths worldwide. It's only 366K. That's less than 5/1,000ths of One Percent! Here is a breakdown of the 56 million people who die every year, year after year:

Cardiovascular diseases: 18 million

Cancers: 10 million

Respiratory diseases: 4 million

Lower respiratory infections: 2.5 million

Dementia: 2.5 million

Digestive diseases: 2.4 million

Neonatal disorders: 1.8 million

Diarrheal diseases: 1.6 million

Diabetes 1.4 million

Liver diseases: 1.3 million

Road injuries: 1.2 million

Kidney disease: 1.2 million

Tuberculosis: 1.2 million

HIV/AIDS: 1 million

Suicide: 800K

Flu virus: 650K

Malaria 620K

Homicide 405K

Other causes: 6 million

Leslie Miriam 3 months ago Member's comment

None of these are contagious. COVID-19 is. And why is it that we have to be the ones fooled by the arguments on why we need to stay at home as much as possible, and you are not the one fooled by those who say there is no need?

DRM 3 months ago Member's comment

Take a minute and read the following article. If you are interested there are many more such articles available. "Is public opinion on Covid-19 being shaped by facts – or ‘terrorized’ by propaganda?" www.rt.com/.../490110-covid19-propaganda-uk-public-opinion/

Leslie Miriam 3 months ago Member's comment

This is written by an expert in propaganda and communications, not infectious disease (and published on a Russian site)! What do I care about his opinion on COVID-19. Send me an article by a respected expert in infectious diseases and I'll take a look.

DRM 3 months ago Member's comment

Did you you miss the Flu? Which has a new vaccine every year, but 650K people still die worldwide! The point is, C-19 has turned out to be the greatest hyped threat in history. The number of deaths have been minuscule. Wake up and start living once again.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Good luck trying to get a guarantee of that, when 50% of Americans are morons.

Adam Sundler 3 months ago Member's comment

Lol, DRM. Would the 50% if morons be those who voted for Hillary or Trump?

DRM 3 months ago Member's comment

The morons are the Dumbocrats, Liberals, Socialists or whatever they call themselves.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

I'm one of the few people I know who is using logic during this insanity. Think about this, 80,000 Americans died of the flu in the 2017-2018 season, while over 900,000 were hospitalized and no one blinked. No one sounded the alarm. Why not? Maybe because 99% of the press articles were not about the flu, like they have been about the Coronavirus. Even if twice as many people die, it still does not warrant the insanity of shutting down American business and forcing everyone to stay home. If people are afraid of getting sick, they can decide for themselves to stay home or protect themselves when going out, just like many people do during the flu season. Self responsibility used to be the common practice. Since the decline in the US public education system, at least half of Americans are happy and willing to let the government take care of them and make decisions for them. It seems everyone believes what the press and the politicians say. Few people question the "wisdom" of "Big Brother". Dr. Dan Erickson of Accelerated Urgent Care in Bakersfield, Calif. said that doctors are being pressured to add COVID to the death certificate as the cause of death. There are reports of public officials in NY pressuring doctors to write the cause of death as Coronavirus, when a person had the virus, regardless of the actual cause of death. The actual deaths caused by the Coronavirus are lower than what is being reported and the number of infections are much higher than what is being reported. This means that the mortality rate is lower than is being reported and much lower than originally predicted. About quarantining an entire city, state or an entire country, there's no proof that the incidents of Coronavirus are lower. In fact in Sweden, where no insane "Stay Home/Stay Safe Propaganda" is forced down the throats of the citizens, the mortality rate is 0.025% of the population versus 0.053% in Spain, where I've been since January 21, 2020 and Spain has been under the strictest quarantine/lockdown in the world. Only now after one and a half months of being locked in what's typically a tiny apartment, by American standards, can children go for a walk, with only one parent and only for one hour and only within one kilometer of home. Spain is expecting to have some sort of quarantine in place until July or later, while the citizens of Sweden are free to decide for themselves what risks they are willing to take and what measures they feel necessary to protect themselves from getting ill, while experiencing half the deaths per capita as Spain. Funny isn't it, how all the liberal socialists in America, who want to adopt the type of "socialism" they say exists in Sweden, argue against ending the "lockdowns".

Dan Richards 4 months ago Member's comment

You say you are one of the few using logic. But I've read some very logical arguments on this thread which have countered or disproved your beliefs at every turn. Yet you still cling to them.

After reading this entire thread, I think the issue is that you truly value the freedoms we have as Americans, and don't want anyone telling you what to do. It sounds like you are opposed to Big Brother style Big Government telling people what to do. That we should be trusted to make our own decisions, and if the idiots go out and inject themselves with bleach or go to a crowded party and die off, well that's just nature taking it's course and survival of the fittest.

On all that, I agree with your sentiments. I think you are diluting your own arguments by focusing on inaccurate or misunderstood, or already disproven scientific/medical statements. You do not need to try to prove COVID-19 is not a threat in order to safeguard your rights. IT IS A THREAT!

You yourself admit you take a flu vaccine so why are you repeating anti-vaxer talking points which have already been dismissed by the majority of the scientific and medical communities?

Stick to what matters: our rights! And some of us want the right to work (carefully, and while social distancing as much as possible), because though we don't want to die, in our personal situations, the greater threat is not having any money for food or rent. That choice is mine to make, and mine alone!

If someone else has a fat savings account and wants to hide out at home until all this blows over, that's their right as well.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

You obviously missed the main points of my arguments. I never said that the Coronavirus is not a threat. I said that the threat of the Coronavirus is far less than all of the "expert's" predictions, every one of them! I said that local and state governments, through ignorance and stupidity have taken measures that are totally disproportionate, in comparison to the threat and as a result of their foolish actions, Americans will suffer far more than anyone is willing to admit. Regarding the flu vaccine, it's my choice. I'm not forced, nor should anyone be forced to take any vaccine. The one thing that matters the most is that the Constitution protects our freedoms. No Mayor and no Governor has the right to close businesses and force citizens to stay home. Eventually, this will get to the SCOTUS and our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms will be upheld.

Texan Hunter 4 months ago Member's comment

Very well put Dan, you've won me back to your side. Give me liberty or give me death!

Harry Goldstein 4 months ago Member's comment

DRM, it's fine to use logic. But not flawed logic. And your logic is flawed. The Good Doctor is 100% right about this. You my friend, are not. You are also wrong about Sweden. Yes, they left it up to people to be responsible for themselves. And many chose to be. But the end result is that Sweden's death rate is significantly higher than all its neighboring countries.

www.cnn.com/.../...ate-phil-black-ebof-dnt-vpx.cnn

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Another example of the press misrepresenting the truth. "Deaths soar in country that didn't lock down. Officials identify big reason why" A lie! Deaths have not soared in Sweden. Like I said elsewhere in these posts, Stockholm has 1 million more "official" residents than any of their Scandinavian neighbors. Look at my post below. DON'T TRUST THE PRESS!!! THEY ARE ALL LIARS!!! The want to sell newspapers and commercials to their sponsors and "Coronavirus" sells!!!

Simone Radcliffe 4 months ago Member's comment

Why do you have "official" residents in quotes. What do you mean?

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Citizens and other legal residents, versus the estimated 30 million illegal residents.

Kate Monroe 4 months ago Member's comment

Simone, don't listen to him. His facts are wrong. I actually just saw this excellent graphic which clearly shows that Sweden's death rate is significantly higher PER CAPITA. You can see it here:

talkmarkets.com/.../swedens-coronavirus-death-rate-is-nearly-6-times-that-of-its-neighbors

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

You're another one that either didn't read or didn't understand what I wrote. Here it is again: "Stockholm has 1 million more residents than any other major city in Scandinavia. You can't get a good picture by simply looking at the Scandinavian countries alone. Look at the USA! NYC is the epicenter of Coronavirus deaths, why? Maybe because of the population density? So why do you only compare them to other Scandinavian countries? They are a part of the EU. Spain has almost 25K deaths, Italy: 28K, The UK (no longer in the EU, thank God): 27K, France 24K. Belgium and The Netherlands both have more deaths per capita than Sweden and all of those countries are locked down!" Also, as of today, Sweden has only about 2,500 deaths from the Coronavirus compared to annual average annual deaths, from all causes of 90,000. The bottomline is Sweden is open and free and has suffered fewer death per capita than 10 other major countries in Europe, all of which have strict lockdowns.

Simone Radcliffe 4 months ago Member's comment

You are right DRM, I didn't understand what you are saying. So you are saying that while Sweden's death rate is many multiples, per capita, compared to its neighbors, it's actually lower than other major counties like the US or Italy. Ok, that is something to think about, but I don't think you can compare them - those countries have far more people and are far more densely populated and did not social distance until a high number of people were already infected. What country is Sweden's size?

Danny Straus 4 months ago Member's comment

Simone/DRM: I can't find it at the moment, but I recently read an article comparing Sweden and Israel. Both are roughly the same size, but Israel enforced social distancing and closed work places, schools, and other public areas very early. They've had very few deaths by comparison as a result (about 200). I don't thing anyone can argue that social distancing does not work. It's common sense that if you aren't near others, you can't infect them. But it comes down to (and I can't believe I'm quoting Trump here) that we don't want the cure to be worse than the disease. Staying home puts a tremendous amount of economic and emotional stress on people. It might make sense to strongly encourage social distancing, but to leave it up to individuals to be responsible for themselves and make their own decisions.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

That's exactly my point. Give Americans the freedoms that the founding fathers guaranteed them and let individuals take responsibility for themselves, which is what used to be the norm. I'm not suggesting that we ignore the Coronavirus. I've been very cautious when I go to the grocery store. I wear a mask and gloves and I disinfect every item I buy, including fruits and vegetables and then I throw the shopping bags away. Be responsible, but be free! By the way, Stockholm has 1.4 million more residents than Jerusalem.

Natalia Rodriguez 4 months ago Member's comment

This makes sense to me, DRM. And glad you are being safe. I am still baffled that there are actually people who say that the coronavirus is a hoax.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

The real hoax is the abuse of power, that Mayors and Governors, throughout the nation, believe they can get away with. Check this out: www.foxnews.com/.../judge-andrew-napolitano-coronavirus-crisis-constitution

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment
Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

But 60% as many as metro Tel Aviv.

Craig Newman 4 months ago Member's comment

The problem is, there's a lot of stupid people out there. Some are just too dumb to be careful, and others actually believe the morons out there who say this virus is a hoax. If too many people get sick, and it overwhelms the hospitals, then people start dying.

I could be responsible but get infected anyway, or have something totally unrelated, like a stroke or heart attack. Then I'll end up dead because those idiots are taking up all the hospital beds. That's why the government has to step in - to keep all of us safe, idiots and all.

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

Kate Monroe But far lower than many other European countries. We are early in this race, Sweden might very well come out ahead in the end.

Dan Richards 4 months ago Member's comment

These are all fair points to argue. Don't shut down those who disagree. These are serious issues that need to be debated. Everyone wants people to be safe, but we have to balance those needs against people's rights and freedoms. DRM is clearly a patriot. He should not have to apologize for that.

He has a right to disagree and I've noticed he has always remained respectful despite having so many take a counter viewpoint. He hasn't resorted to insults or name calling s many would. Healthy debate is good. Please don't try to eliminate it by making people feel unwelcome.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Thanks Dan! But, as a former US Army, Airborne, Ranger, French Commando trained, Infantry Officer, I don't shy from a fight, but I try hard to remain an officer and a gentleman.

Barry Glassman 4 months ago Member's comment

You are right Dan, I apologize. I did not mean to make anyone feel unwelcome here.

Barry Glassman 4 months ago Member's comment

Agreed. Simone, notice that countless people have shared stats, and facts, and news articles from reliable sources to dispute every thing Mr. DRM has said. DRM can say "don't trust the media, listen to me, I know better." But then he does not offer to backup any of his claims with any reliable source. In fact the only source he has linked to is his own anonymous website.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Honestly, I've not made up an statistics, stories or other BS. Everything I've stated as a fact has a reliable source, except of course my opinions. Unfortunately, multiple "reliable" sources are continuously contradicted by other "reliable" sources and I don't have the time to post every source, but if anyone wants a source on any particular thing I've said, I'll be happy to post it. The bottomline is, the Coronavirus is probably going to kill fewer people globally than die each year from Suicide, HIV/AIDS, Tuberculosis, Kidney Disease, Road Accidents, Liver Disease, Diabetes or Diarrhea, not to mention 7 other major causes of death. More people will probably die of the Flu than the Coronavirus. Does anyone besides me see the significance of this? And if anyone does, would you please try to explain to all those who don't.

Simone Radcliffe 4 months ago Member's comment

Yes, I will agree with you on that DRM. The contradictory info can make my head spin.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Stockholm has 1 million more residents than any other major city in Scandinavia. Look at the USA! NYC is the epicenter of Coronavirus deaths, why? Maybe because of the population density? And why do you only compare them to other Scandinavia countries? They are a part of the EU. Spain has almost 25K deaths, Italy: 28K, The UK (no longer in the EU, thank God): 27K, France 24K. Belgium and The Netherlands both have more deaths per capita than Sweden and all of those countries are locked down!

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

I think we may be jumping the gun on who is winning and losing here. We've got another year, minimum, to go. The costs of this virus on our ability to provide a wide range of health and other services are still likely to cause overwhelming suffering.

In my presentation above - made early on - I estimated that if unchecked the virus would double normal mortality. This means it would kill 2.5 million Americans with 30 million life-years lost. It won't get close to that. But the economic contraction could easily claim an additional 30 million life years. And this is just in the first world.

In the third world, over 250 million people are already facing starvation due to first-world lockdowns. This includes 130 million from economic collapse and 130 million from the collapse of the pesticide supply chain to suppress locusts in East Africa. Far more people will be killed by the locusts alone than by corona virus - and those deaths would have been entirely preventable.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Finally, I agree! 100%! The economic cost of the insane government shutdown of American business will be catastrophic. You can be assured these idiots didn't even think about the food supply chain breaking down. Now they are scrambling to fix it before people begin starving! Everything the government touches, everything they implement to "help" the citizens, ends up failing.

Harry Goldstein 4 months ago Member's comment

Joseph, I'm not sure if you are replying to me or not. I don't think I'm jumping the gun - just stating the obvious. Many are saying we should follow Sweden's lead since that's working for them. And while it may be working economically (that is a different discussion all together), it clearly is NOT working to save lives as there are for more dead than in other nearby countries.

I do understand the economic fallout will be devastating due to stay at home orders. It would also be devastating if everyone is too sick, or too dead, to go to work.

But I was not discussing the economic impact. What I find frustrating is that so many people are putting out false information saying that COVID-19 is not particularly dangerous or that other diseases or car accidents are more dangerous. And that's simply not true.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

I guess you missed my post above: Stockholm has 1 million more residents than any other major city in Scandinavia. Look at the USA! NYC is the epicenter of Coronavirus deaths, why? Maybe because of the population density? And why do you only compare them to other Scandinavia countries? They are a part of the EU. Spain has almost 25K deaths, Italy: 28K, The UK (no longer in the EU, thank God): 27K, France 24K. Belgium and The Netherlands both have more deaths per capita than Sweden and all of those countries are locked down! Why do people think that Sweden should only be compared to other Scandinavian countries? It's senseless!

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

DRM Stockholm has 2.2 million in the metro area. Copenhagen 2 million. The city size does not explain the differences.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Here is my source. "According to the Nordic Council of Ministers, the most-populated cities in the Nordic region are as follows: Stockholm, Sweden: 2,269,060. Copenhagen, Denmark: 1,295,686. Oslo, Norway: 1,281,127."

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

That ignores metropolitan areas - which in this case matter. Copenhagen, like Boston, is just the central kernel of the larger city.

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

Harry Goldstein, The danger of the disease matters because the economic decisions also cost lives. Our decisions are already almost guaranteed to cost tens of millions of lives in Africa.

The virus can be just as good as the flu and far far worse. Convenience surveys (antibody population tests) suggest a death rate similar to the flu. The difference is that nobody has had exposure before. So instead of 50 million Americans getting infected and 35,000 dying, 300 million could get infected with 200,000 dead (although it is looking lower than that).

Sweden has more dead now than other Scandinavian countries, but on the other they are on track with most of Europe. That is an interesting data point. But what has to be remembered is that Sweden will have the health care capacity (borne of a stronger economy) to deal with the virus and other medical issues 6 months, a year, two years from now. And they won't have the mortality and morbidity issues associated with widespread unemployment.

This is a marathon, not a sprint.

In this panic, most countries set off at a sprint. Their current lead REALLY doesn't mean they'll win the race.

Tracey Nichols 4 months ago Member's comment

Well said. And hey, if those people are more concerned about car accidents, than I have great news - car accidents are way down this year thanks to everyone staying at home. So we're saving even more lives!

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

So, that's all that matters, saving lives, regardless of the social costs, the cost to society, to the economy, the cost to freedom? So, let's outlaw smoking, sugar, alcohol, all carcinogens regardless of the positive things that may come from them, automobiles, trucks, trains, planes, ships, bicycles, definitely motorcycles, surfing, skiiing (water and snow), etc. Ever seen the movie, "The Matrix"? We can all live in a machine and avoid all these modes of death. Wonderful!!!

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

DRM, I wrote a dystopian story about exactly this idea. I did an audio recording of it on candidateeveryone.podbean.com/e/randoms-a-story/

You might enjoy it.

Mike Nolan 4 months ago Member's comment

Locusts? What locusts? Are you being serious? As in like one of the 10 biblical plagues? Sometimes it feels like this is the end of the world. Wish I paid more attention to my bible studies as a kid.

Susan Miller 4 months ago Member's comment

Hi Mike, the locusts were news to me as well. But Joseph had an article about that specific issue today: talkmarkets.com/.../the-cost-of-our-coronavirus-insanity

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

Nobody cares because they are Africans. An area about the size of Western Europe is about to be consumed. And it was ENTIRELY preventable - if we hadn't shut down. The Ethiopians needed $70 million, some helicopters and pesticide.

No dice.

Mike Nolan 4 months ago Member's comment

Did we know the locusts were coming? Did it coincide with the pandemic or was there a window before it started where we could have helped but failed to.

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

We knew they were coming. We couldn't deal with the first generation because they were in Yemen and then Somalia and crop dusters were being shot at. A lot of the next generation was in Kenya and Ethiopia - which we knew - but they couldn't muster the supplies to spray them. I believe one more generation is expected, where the population will rise another 20 fold. It will probably extend from Africa to Pakistan at that point (it is already in Pakistan for the first time in almost 60 years) but it will get far bigger.

Mike Nolan 4 months ago Member's comment

Shot at? By who? That's really crazy. Sometimes I take for granted that I should be grateful that I was born here and not there. I'll try to remember that next time I'm feeling antsy stuck at home.

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

There is a civil war in Yemen. All (well, at least many) low-flying aircraft are shot at. Same with large amounts of Somalia (Puntland and Somaliland excepted).

The Good Doctor 4 months ago Member's comment

Ok, let's use logic. First of all, that flu season was the deadliest in decades. The 2018-2019 season, only 34,000 died. What you ask is a common question that misconstrues the situation. But even if we take your outlier number of 80,000 dead, think of this:

1. Over the course of an entire year, the worst flu outbreak killed 80,000 Americans. This was with NO social distancing. By comparison, with shutdowns, school closed, mask wearing and social distancing, already nearly as many Americans have officially died of COVID-19 (over 60,000)... and that was only in a few months. Imagine how many more would have died over the course of a year had there been no social distancing.

2. We know all about the flu. There is still so much we don't know about COVID-19. Yes most survive but in many, it causes permanent damage. There's now evidence it causes strokes in young people, etc. Who knows what other surprises it holds - that is why extra caution is needed.

3. COVID-19 is far more contagious than the flu. Additionally, when people have the flu, they can feel and end up home in bed (aka self isolating and not infecting others). With COVID-19 the majority of people have no symptoms. As a result, they are spreading it around infecting people. People tend to be socially responsible when they know they are infected. But it's human to act normal when you feel fine, even with the best of intentions.

Also, we have a vaccine for the flu. Most vaccines take around 20 years to develop. The fastest vaccine eve developed still took 4 years. We're a long way off.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

1. For social distancing to work, people have to be free to move about. If you are not free, you can't social distance. No one practiced social distancing before the lockdowns and almost no one is now. The people of Sweden are living their lives as they normally would and they are developing herd immunity. Besides, the Coronavirus has killed less than 9/1,000ths of 1% worldwide. Most people who have it are asymptomatic and it kills only a tiny fraction of those who get sick. Let's forget about comparisons with other causes of death, it's not that deadly in of itself!

Regarding the 2017-18 flu season, who can you believe? Look here: www.washingtonpost.com/.../...963eea204_story.html

2. Permanent damage? Know one knows the answer to this question?It's only been around for a few months. "strokes in young people", really? How many, what percentage? How do they measure this? Young people sometimes die of stroke/heart attacks for many different reasons. Youth is no longer a sign of good health. Many young Americans are obese!

3. There is no proof, yet, that the Coronavirus is more contagious than the flu. maybe some "experts" say this, but they have been wrong from the beginning! Don't buy the "facts" about this disease until they stop changing their predictions and report on the facts!

Again, about a vaccine. There are reports that the Chinese and USA are almost there. But, don't count on it. Let's see what happens with the vaccine wars. In the meantime, we should be focusing on herd immunity, like the Swedes.

Sars and Swine Flu were supposed to be two other tragic viruses that never came close to the "experts" projections. Don't trust the "experts".

Danny Straus 3 months ago Member's comment

According to a new study in Amsterdam, COVID-19 immunity can only last a meager 6 months. That doesn't seem long enough to offer any sort of practical herd immunity:

www.jpost.com/.../could-coronavirus-re-infection-be-possible-within-six-months-629575

DRM 3 months ago Member's comment

Don't we fooled by "speculation". This is not proven, it's just a guess. The world locked down and economies closed, putting 40 million Americans out of work, based on speculation, which has now been proven to be wrong!

Harry Goldstein 4 months ago Member's comment

Mr. DRM, if you arguments are based on incorrect information, they are meaningless. I will address your arguments point by point.

If you watched the CNN video, people in Sweden were asked to social distance and some were (though only "arms length away"). But they are not stuck at home and businesses are open.

You talk about herd immunity, but it's too soon to know if that's possible. The WHO said there is no evidence that herd immunity is possible. And hundreds have become reinfected, which tells us that it will fail in at least some people. Also I'm not sure if you understand how immunity works. It does not last forever, but only for a few months to a about a year in most cases. Yet a vaccine is years away. So how will that work?

It is not too early to know about permanent damage. Hundreds of thousands have recovered and we see that many of those now have permanent scarring of the lung tissue and other long term or permanent ailments. What we don't know is how many will have these problems. The point is that while some may not die, their lives won't be as they were before.

Yes, it is causing blood clots, amputations and strokes in healthy young people in their 20s and 30s. It's still early to know anything meaningful about that - but that's the point. THERE IS TOO MUCH WE DON'T YET KNOW ABOUT CORONAVIRUS. Maybe tomorrow we'll find out everyone with blue eyes will go blind, or kids infected will grow up to be sterile. Who knows? So why just assume it's not a big deal when we are learning new, dangerous aspects every day. You can read more about this latest stroke concern here: www.washingtonpost.com/.../strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/

I trust the experts who say it is more contagious. But you say you are a logical person. Doesn't what the doctor below said make total sense to you? People with the flu feel sick so stay home. Most with the coronavirus don't, so they are out and about infecting others. That in itself makes it more contagious.

Don't believe reports that we're close to a vaccine. It would be nice. But they take many many years to develop. There has never been one in 12 to 18 months like Trump has been saying.

As for SARS and MERS, I don't ever recall seeing projections saying deaths would be in the millions. They might have been dangerous, but not this dangerous. That's why we did not shut the world down for them, but are for this.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

OMG! First of all the WHO is a costly, bureaucratic, worthless organization, full of poorly trained third world "doctors"! I know about third world medicine because I've lived in and traveled to many such countries. No third world doctor can practice medicine in the USA without studying and graduating from an American Medical School first. Wonder why? Also, the WHO is in the pocket of China, a bastion of openness and honesty, NOT! And by the way, no prediction or forecast of the Coronavirus has yet been accurate!

Samantha Carter 4 months ago Member's comment

The #WHO isn't perfect. It's difficult to stay above politics or risk alienating a country and lose funding (like what happened with the US). But don't insult those brave doctors and scientists who are doing their best to defeat this thing. Even #Trump had great heaps of praise to say about them before he turned on them because it helped his narrative that he's not to blame for America's inaction, China is. But he's never accepted blame for anything in his life.

Danny Straus 4 months ago Member's comment

DRM, thanks for sharing this article. I had no idea about this and as an ardent supporter of Israel I am really outraged by it. You have definitely changed by opinion about the #WHO. I hope others read this article as well. While I don't think now is the time to pull funding from the WHO (we need all the help we can get fighting COVID-19), I would have supported pulling funding after they put out this ridiculous condemnation of Israel which could not have been farther from the truth.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

When you say "we" need all the help we can get, you need to understand that the WHO misinformed the entire world and is probably responsible for many more deaths than had they not existed and had not misled the entire world, outside of China. Secondly, the USA derives absolutely no benefit worth the cost of our donations to the WHO. We don't need them!

Susan Miller 4 months ago Member's comment

DRM, I found this Fox News article confusing if not outright misleading, but perhaps I am misunderstanding the situation... The author of the article says that The WHO showed bias towards Israel, but then went on to say that it was several countries, who happen to be WHO member countries who voted for the resolution against Israel. So was it the WHO, which is not a country and has no vote, or actually these countries, many of which are known to be anti-Israel, who supported this resolution.

The US voted against this resolution and they are a WHO member country. By the same logic you could say the WHO is pro-Israel because the United States, a WHO member country, supports Israel.

To be clear, I'm not saying you are wrong, I am seeking clarification. Too often these days mainstream "news" articles are actually the author's heavily biased opinion disguised as news. True unbiased journalism has long been dead. And a few tweaked words can completely alter the situation and readers' perceptions. My initial feeling is that's what is happening here.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

First, you are 100% correct in saying that mainstream media, even Fox News, though not as blatantly as CNN, MSNBC and all other liberal/socialist "news" agencies, slants the reporting of the news as it best fits their agenda. Personally, I think that the FCC should revoke their licenses. They don't report the news, they editorialize it as they see fit. About the WHO and the "member" countries, as the reporter said, the WHO is used by Israel’s enemies as a platform for viciously attacking the Jewish state, just like almost every United Nations "associated organization". In the case of Israel, these countries and the WHO are one in the same. They always vote together against Israel and against the USA and its allies. Past presidents have withheld funding from the UN, because of the anti-American positions of many UN member states. What was originally an interesting idea, has become a disaster for the world that it was originally intended to benefit. I hope this clarifies things for you.

Joseph Cox 4 months ago Author's comment

The issue with many UN organizations is that they become mouthpieces for the political aims of their major voting blocks. WHO, UNESCO etc.... do this. It is an inherent weakness in a democracy of dictatorships.

Put another way: in a world where a majority of countries (and thus voting states) are not free and many of those states control vast resources the free nations depend on those who are free but lack natural allies will find themselves on the outside of these organizations.

Israel and Taiwan both fall into this bucket. Taiwan isn't even allowed to be a part of the UN and so it is hard to condemn them as a member state.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

There are good people in almost every organization, but that does not mean that the WHO or the UN are honest, uncorrupt, functional and beneficial organizations. They and many other "world" organizations are dishonest, corrupt and dysfunctional! We should not be funding any of them, especially now that our idiot politicians have added an additional $$$ 3.5 trillion dollars to our national debt.

The Good Doctor 4 months ago Member's comment

DRM, I also forgot to mention that the COVID-19 death rate is likely far higher than reported as well. In order to be counted in the official count, those who die must have tested positive for COVID-19. But while testing is ramping up, there are still areas where it is notoriously difficult to get tested.

In fact we now know that COVID-19 actually killed people before we even

knew the SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) was in the US. But we hadn't know they were infected at the time.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

We'll have to wait and see how the numbers play out, but what number is high enough to take away the freedoms that millions of Americans have fought for, for over two hundred years? Until there is an amendment to the constitution taking away our personal freedoms, it really doesn't matter how dangerous or deadly a virus is, we are free men and we should be able to decide for ourselves whether to stay home or go out, not the government!

Angry Old Lady 4 months ago Member's comment

DRM, I understand that protecting freedom is important. But so are lives. I wonder... would you feel any differently if you or your loved ones were considered high risk? Not trying to be argumentative, just curious.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

I'm 64 years old, considered medically obese (even though my 39 year old, gorgeous, 5'10" fiancée thinks I look fantastic), suffer from hypertension and diabetes. According to a recent article, most of those who have died from C-19, were over 60 years old and possessed one of these three illnesses. As I mentioned, I have all three, so I'd say that I'm high risk. But, I still want the freedom to decide for myself, how to best protect myself. There's nothing I despise more than the unconstitutional dictates of elected officials.

Texan Hunter 4 months ago Member's comment

Lol, you are a funny guy DRM. I like your sytle.

DRM 4 months ago Member's comment

Thanks Texan Hunter! By the way, I'm planning on buying a new home in the Dallas Metroplex, when I return from Spain, after the summer, when house prices should be 25% - 50% lower than pre C-19 prices. Thank you politicians for saving me hundreds of thousands of dollars on my new house.

Angry Old Lady 4 months ago Member's comment

DRM, you "recommend a new website?" Don't you mean YOUR website? That's a bit disingenuous don't you think?

Ryan Bartel 6 months ago Member's comment

This stuff is scaring the bejesus outta me!

Sheryl Morris 6 months ago Member's comment

Good stuff.