one of the things that ought to be done, both as an economic stimulus and a humanitarian measure, is to forgive or restructure the Greek debt. Failure to do so is one of the things holding back the Eurozone economy/ies/. German opposition to debt forgiveness or restructuring for Greece is hypocritical since Germany was probably the greatest beneficiary of debt forgiveness in the 20th century. The Marshall Plan money, 15 billion $ given to Germany after WW2, the German war, all stayed in Germany. Most was forgiven debt while a small part was paid back to the USA but stayed in Germany as counterpart funds to be used for projects in Germany. Then the various countries occupied during the war, including Greece, signed away their right to reparations under US pressure. Furthermore, Germany engineered its own debt forgiveness for WW One debts owed to France by devaluating their own currency.
so forgiving or restructuring the Greek debt while also undertaking infrastructure projects in Greece, including maritime oil and gas exploration off the Greek coast, would provide needed stimulus, not only for Greece but for the whole Eurozone and EU. And if drilling were successful, it would ensure oil/gas supplies within the EU itself and under EU control.
We bear in mind that most of today's Greek debt was incurred after Greece revealed its problems in 2010. After that, the interest rate on Greek state debt ballooned, especially since there was no eurozone solidarity with Greece and Greece had to borrow on the free market.
Pete, for your information, Italy was one of the founding countries of the Common Market, the EEC and then the EU. In fact, I believe that the Common Market or its forerunner, was founded in Rome about 1947 by the Treaty of Rome [as I recall].
And then, unfortunately for the Italians as my Italian friends tell me, Italy was also in on the founding of the Eurozone, which was promoted by that smart-fool, Romano Prodi, not only a politician but an economist no less. My unscientific sample of opinion in Italy and France came up with the result of nil, niente, rien de rien, nada, ningun supporters of the Euro. They don't like it but at the same time, those whom I have asked tell me that leaving the Euro would be un grande disastro. So the Italians and French too feel that the Euro, the single currency, is a trap.
The UK was smart to stay out of the Eurozone. And now is benefiting from being on the outside.
Jacobus, don't you know that Germany was the greatest beneficiary of debt relief in the 20th century?
When is Germany going to pay back the Marshall Plan billions [at 2015 value]? Or pay war reparations to occupied countries for wartime damage and theft? These countries include Greece where German forces took a huge stock of gold from the country's central bank.
How about the German trick after WW One to inflate the currency in order to avoid paying war reparations to France?
Peter, you're right on most of your article. Great insights. But I am sure that you don't expect Germany or other Nordic states to do what you suggest which I agree is needed. So the same stagnation and suffering will continue. And Europe's stagnation seems to be dragging down the world economy. Maybe China's current problems are in part due to Eurozone stagnation.
But Peter, you didn't mention debt relief for Greece, as I recall. Yet you understand that they can never pay off their current debt which is in great part the fault of the "bailout" plans, especially the first.
Now maybe Greece's predicament is partly due to a deliberate German policy on the part of Schaeuble and the governor of the Bundesbank to cause suffering in Greece in order to show an example to other Eurozone states of what happens to those who fall out of line. Tim Geithner reported something that suggests that. See link:
But the Eurozone too shares a lot of the blame for the misguided "bailouts" of Greece startiing in 2010. These were just arrangements for creditors to lend more to Greece in order to get payment from Greece for their earlier loans. And Merkel and shoybleh are to blame for pushing the harmful "bailout" terms.
as for the world economic crisis which exploded in 2008, much was the fault of Obama's ACORN outfit that was the Federal govt in the US to grant mortgages to people who could not pay them back. So obama too bears his share of the blame.
Fact is that Germany was the greatest beneficiary of debt relief in the 20th century. Think of Marshall Plan billions never paid back. War reparations never paid for WW2. Etc. Moreover, Germany 's handling of the Greek debt crisis at the start in 2010 caused Greek debt to balloon. Was Germany deliberately trying to make Greece suffer?
On one point, Harry Dent, you are contradicting the many reports coming out of Germany and the Brussels meeting where the last deal with Greece was decided on. To wit, many reports stated that German finance minister Schaeuble wanted Greece out of the Eurozone. And not only Schaeuble but the Bundesbank governor, and others. As I understand it, Merkel would have gone along with Schaeuble if it were not for opposition to forcing Greece out on the part of Renzi and Hollande and others. Again, I stress that the Eurozone's misguided handling of the Greek debt crisis at the start in 2010, as promoted by Germany, caused Greece's debt to swell and balloon up.
I travel to Europe, specifically to Italy and France, at least once a year and I speak the languages more or less (more French and less Italian). I make it a point to ask about the euro currency and the intelligent people whom I talk to tell me that the euro was not good for them. It made their lives more difficult. Consider: When the euro came in circa 2000, retail prices for consumers shot up. But not wages. Which left consumers/workers worse off. But people are afraid of getting out of the euro currency. It would be a disastro, an Italian friend told me. Letters in the Italian press complain about the euro too and one Italian wrote that when he went to Germany on business, even Germans were complaining about the effect of the euro on them. So the euro was a bad idea whose time had come. And now how to get out of it? Or how to force the powers that be in the Eurozone to restructure the rules of the Zone? There is no easy answer that I know of. Meanwhile, in Greece, Tsipras and others know that the euro has been bad for their country but they are even more afraid of leaving. That is the only reason that Tsipras accepted the bad deal that he got in early July to let Greece stay in the Eurozone. He and his advisors, maybe with the exception of Varoufakis, believed that leaving the euro would be worse than staying, even under the bad conditions set by the Zone.
So the Euro and its harmful impact are part of the straitjacket, the death pact, that the EU constitutes. And few know how to get off the wild rollercoaster before it goes off the rails.
Rather than making Europe stronger the euro is clearly making it weaker. And I could go on.
but as we have seen in recent negotiations over the Greek crisis that the eurozone states do not help each other. Some do not want to help others. And most don't want to help Greece and some deny Greece any debt relief whereas they [that is, Germany] was the greatest beneficiary of debt relief in the 20th century.
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Something’s Gotta Give
one of the things that ought to be done, both as an economic stimulus and a humanitarian measure, is to forgive or restructure the Greek debt. Failure to do so is one of the things holding back the Eurozone economy/ies/. German opposition to debt forgiveness or restructuring for Greece is hypocritical since Germany was probably the greatest beneficiary of debt forgiveness in the 20th century. The Marshall Plan money, 15 billion $ given to Germany after WW2, the German war, all stayed in Germany. Most was forgiven debt while a small part was paid back to the USA but stayed in Germany as counterpart funds to be used for projects in Germany. Then the various countries occupied during the war, including Greece, signed away their right to reparations under US pressure. Furthermore, Germany engineered its own debt forgiveness for WW One debts owed to France by devaluating their own currency. so forgiving or restructuring the Greek debt while also undertaking infrastructure projects in Greece, including maritime oil and gas exploration off the Greek coast, would provide needed stimulus, not only for Greece but for the whole Eurozone and EU. And if drilling were successful, it would ensure oil/gas supplies within the EU itself and under EU control. We bear in mind that most of today's Greek debt was incurred after Greece revealed its problems in 2010. After that, the interest rate on Greek state debt ballooned, especially since there was no eurozone solidarity with Greece and Greece had to borrow on the free market.
The Simple Math Behind Greece’s Complicated Situation
Sorry for my mistake as to the date of the treaties of Rome in a previous message. They were signed in Rome in 1957, not as in the previous message.
The Simple Math Behind Greece’s Complicated Situation
Pete, for your information, Italy was one of the founding countries of the Common Market, the EEC and then the EU. In fact, I believe that the Common Market or its forerunner, was founded in Rome about 1947 by the Treaty of Rome [as I recall].
And then, unfortunately for the Italians as my Italian friends tell me, Italy was also in on the founding of the Eurozone, which was promoted by that smart-fool, Romano Prodi, not only a politician but an economist no less. My unscientific sample of opinion in Italy and France came up with the result of nil, niente, rien de rien, nada, ningun supporters of the Euro. They don't like it but at the same time, those whom I have asked tell me that leaving the Euro would be un grande disastro. So the Italians and French too feel that the Euro, the single currency, is a trap.
The UK was smart to stay out of the Eurozone. And now is benefiting from being on the outside.
Speaking of the Euro being a trap, see link:
ziontruth.blogspot.co.il/.../...reece-in-debt.html
Greek Bailout Can’t Succeed Without Ending German Mercantilism
See link:
ziontruth.blogspot.co.il/.../...ill-voting-on.html
Greek Bailout Can’t Succeed Without Ending German Mercantilism
Jacobus, don't you know that Germany was the greatest beneficiary of debt relief in the 20th century?
When is Germany going to pay back the Marshall Plan billions [at 2015 value]? Or pay war reparations to occupied countries for wartime damage and theft? These countries include Greece where German forces took a huge stock of gold from the country's central bank.
How about the German trick after WW One to inflate the currency in order to avoid paying war reparations to France?
wbponline.com/.../largest-debt-defaulter-in-europe-not-greece
impact.ref.ac.uk/.../CaseStudy.aspx?Id=41872
ziontruth.blogspot.co.il/.../...reece-in-debt.html
Greek Bailout Can’t Succeed Without Ending German Mercantilism
Peter, you're right on most of your article. Great insights. But I am sure that you don't expect Germany or other Nordic states to do what you suggest which I agree is needed. So the same stagnation and suffering will continue. And Europe's stagnation seems to be dragging down the world economy. Maybe China's current problems are in part due to Eurozone stagnation.
But Peter, you didn't mention debt relief for Greece, as I recall. Yet you understand that they can never pay off their current debt which is in great part the fault of the "bailout" plans, especially the first.
Now maybe Greece's predicament is partly due to a deliberate German policy on the part of Schaeuble and the governor of the Bundesbank to cause suffering in Greece in order to show an example to other Eurozone states of what happens to those who fall out of line. Tim Geithner reported something that suggests that. See link:
ziontruth.blogspot.co.il/.../...reece-in-debt.html
How Goldman Sachs Profited From The Greek Crisis
But the Eurozone too shares a lot of the blame for the misguided "bailouts" of Greece startiing in 2010. These were just arrangements for creditors to lend more to Greece in order to get payment from Greece for their earlier loans. And Merkel and shoybleh are to blame for pushing the harmful "bailout" terms.
as for the world economic crisis which exploded in 2008, much was the fault of Obama's ACORN outfit that was the Federal govt in the US to grant mortgages to people who could not pay them back. So obama too bears his share of the blame.
Europe's Greatest Cover-Up Could Mean The Death Of The Euro
Fact is that Germany was the greatest beneficiary of debt relief in the 20th century. Think of Marshall Plan billions never paid back. War reparations never paid for WW2. Etc. Moreover, Germany 's handling of the Greek debt crisis at the start in 2010 caused Greek debt to balloon. Was Germany deliberately trying to make Greece suffer?
On one point, Harry Dent, you are contradicting the many reports coming out of Germany and the Brussels meeting where the last deal with Greece was decided on. To wit, many reports stated that German finance minister Schaeuble wanted Greece out of the Eurozone. And not only Schaeuble but the Bundesbank governor, and others. As I understand it, Merkel would have gone along with Schaeuble if it were not for opposition to forcing Greece out on the part of Renzi and Hollande and others. Again, I stress that the Eurozone's misguided handling of the Greek debt crisis at the start in 2010, as promoted by Germany, caused Greece's debt to swell and balloon up.
Greece Is Not The Only Country Facing Severe Economic Challenges…
I travel to Europe, specifically to Italy and France, at least once a year and I speak the languages more or less (more French and less Italian). I make it a point to ask about the euro currency and the intelligent people whom I talk to tell me that the euro was not good for them. It made their lives more difficult. Consider: When the euro came in circa 2000, retail prices for consumers shot up. But not wages. Which left consumers/workers worse off. But people are afraid of getting out of the euro currency. It would be a disastro, an Italian friend told me. Letters in the Italian press complain about the euro too and one Italian wrote that when he went to Germany on business, even Germans were complaining about the effect of the euro on them. So the euro was a bad idea whose time had come. And now how to get out of it? Or how to force the powers that be in the Eurozone to restructure the rules of the Zone? There is no easy answer that I know of. Meanwhile, in Greece, Tsipras and others know that the euro has been bad for their country but they are even more afraid of leaving. That is the only reason that Tsipras accepted the bad deal that he got in early July to let Greece stay in the Eurozone. He and his advisors, maybe with the exception of Varoufakis, believed that leaving the euro would be worse than staying, even under the bad conditions set by the Zone.
So the Euro and its harmful impact are part of the straitjacket, the death pact, that the EU constitutes. And few know how to get off the wild rollercoaster before it goes off the rails.
Rather than making Europe stronger the euro is clearly making it weaker. And I could go on.
Greece Is Not The Only Country Facing Severe Economic Challenges…
but as we have seen in recent negotiations over the Greek crisis that the eurozone states do not help each other. Some do not want to help others. And most don't want to help Greece and some deny Greece any debt relief whereas they [that is, Germany] was the greatest beneficiary of debt relief in the 20th century.