Almost all of the deaths will be among the chronically ill frail elderly with one or more life threatening conditions within sight of their last day so while CV-19 was the last straw so to speak they are dying slightly earlier than otherwise expected.

Healthy people who have excellent immune systems and are 60 and under will be ill and recover as typical from a respiratory virus. If younger and you have ruined your health with Meth addiction, acquired Hep C, HIV, HPV, HHV, TB, etc. etc it might push you over so cause of death is complex. Hospital supervisors will instruct doctors as to what to record and whether to trumpet CV-19 or not.

The numbers cannot be made to work though you may demonstrate how this can be the case. In Japan more adult diapers are sold than baby diapers and I suspect it might be the same in Germany and Italy.

The economy supports the heavy populations other than in very primitive subsistence economies which of course have few elderly due to short life expectancies as was the case in the USA itself until well after 1900.

In a century we see a country like Germany where 8.6 are born for every 12.1 who die.

You are an antirealist or anti-materialist in a philosophical sense as opposed to consumerism but no society can get older with every passing year so Germany can triple its immigration rates to maintain stability or terminate the frail elderly at a rate that maintains stability and a vibrant dynamic society as the population declines but either way it’s 2.115 children per female or the Germans themselves vanish as many peoples have. There are a number of outcomes possible but a society where the 80+ outnumber the 01 to 15 is not possible even in a simulation. Thanks for your comment but expect your responsibilities to be pressed upon you at some point if you evade a violent death.

Israel while developed is a tiny state as you are aware in very dramatic circumstances. You rather think that this tiny enclave should be taken as typical? No of course not. How Israel is actually financed is interesting is it not?

Thank you for your reply and I appreciate your point however the end result is still the same. This is entirely the choice of individual women of course but unless the number of children being born increases by at least 33% with women bearing children about age 24 the population will age out and disappear over time and on the way will become very senescent and lose the capacity to innovate and solve the unknowable problems of the future.

So while it may seem optimistic it is a minimal configuration. Eventually the current populations will be replaced by someone so it would be an interesting circumstance were the 65+ crowd be reduced to 8% of the US or other developed state population. Maybe it would not and if it did not the outcome will closely follow the current path. Today in Germany 12.1 people will die and 8.6 will be born. This is not going to work as each year the German median age will rise until a very large die back occurs.

You might think so but Death is inevitable as is old age and steep declines. Many false impressions have been converted to the public about medical miracles and while there are many advances there is no chance of immortality or of not getting one day older with each passing day so I do not blame anyone for accepting these deeply false assurances.

There is a great deal here to consider but there is no path that allows a society to get endlessly older while birth rates are suppressed by choice or otherwise.

When the median age crosses somewhere between 50 and 55 societies will be completely senescent and some countries like Japan sell more adult diapers than baby diapers.

I have seen this done and it can be accomplished absolutely seamlessly with no fear, pain or anxiety.

Maybe people will take up an interest in family life again, maybe not but if they do not the outcome will be the same - cultural disappearance. See the point? They are dying out in Italy and either this is reversed by capping off resources to the chronically ill or the die off is assured.

It may seem so but average life expectancy in the US in 1800 was under age 40 in the range 35-40. This is the real experience that gave the new nation vigor and vitality.

A handful of people did live to an advanced age but very few so we would reduce the group age 65+ from 18% perhaps to 10% then lower depending on energy levels, courage in adversity, and willingness to accept risks and responsibility.

The USA has a median age of 38 and has a great deal of severe chronic health conditions that makes the USA a lot older and sicker than it might be assumed on the basis of the number 38.

Countries like Italy, German, Japan and many other are senescent societies and seem likely to disappear. The land will still be there of course along with the lakes, rivers, and sky but these peoples will be gone.

Now my question is would the Italian women suddenly become interested in family when the median age approached 30 or would they continue dying out as currently.

Don't be concerned as I have observed skilled anesthetists shut down the frail elderly and the younger chronically ill in irreversible coma and you will feel absolutely nothing and need not see anyone.

All developed economies that I am aware of are failing reproductively meaning that the women are averaging too few children to balance the demographics and this leads to an ever aging population until support systems are overwhelmed. This does not reverse over time as each generation of women has even fewer children at ever later ages.

It appears we will hit a point where frail elderly and the chronically ill people who have chosen to destroy their health are helped to exit somewhat sooner than currently expected.

Since Italy is referred to the median age is about 47 and each woman has fewer than 1.47 children where 2.1 are required. To have a vibrant and dynamic society the median age should be about 28 so this is the shape of irreversible population collapse and Germany and Japan are in somewhat worse shape.

Using anesthetics and morphine to shut down the chronically ill elderly as a change of policy during the current virus panic can be attempted.

The patient who is terminal has an IV installed with saline solution. A ketamine based anesthetic is injected into the IV line which seamlessly ends consciousness. Then IV morphine is turned on to quiet the patient whose respiration rate slowly decreases until they are gone.

This is absolutely painless and reserved for people who are on the way out shortly.

This is one of the ways assisted suicide is done though there are others though this method outlined above has the least drama for all concerned.

Cut it out. Italy is a VERY old country with a rapidly rising death rate without the CV and 1750 to 2000 people die every day and many of these will be those cut a few month short by CV. These are all incredibly old people with multiple chronic illnesses.

In Lombardy alone 100,000 die every year.

The slightly earlier death of the frail elderly, the heavy smoker, and the drug addict is a blessing to us all.

Morphine for all terminally ill patients with 6 months or less life expectancy.